Seal Hunt Protest
Ex-Beatle joins seal hunt protest.
Sir Paul McCartney and wife Heather back the storm of protest over Canada’s annual harp seal cull.
source:Reuters
The more I look at the horrible pictures of seals being murdered in a unhuman and brutal way, the more I wan’t to forget these images.
I am glad to hear some people are protesting against this, but what I’m not glad about is that it hasn’t done any good until today. Can’t just someone create a kind of gang that hunt’s these seal hunters? I’d think it be pretty fair to see them do the same thing to those people that take of the skin of the seals while still alive.
If I had money, I think I’d start investing it in punishment more than help for people that are dying, because I don’t see much worth in this world to grow up children when people like the Canadians are still around to behave like disgusting animals.
March 7th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
That’s all we need, another armchair protester. If the baby seal looked like a chicken you wouldn’t be so keen to cuddle up. Try and get your facts right. The Seal hunt is the most regulated and monitored hunt in the world, so needless to say the seals aren’t skinned alive. You have no concept of the contribution this hunt makes to the economic welfare of the sealers who risk their lives on the ice pans. And you suggest killing people who disagree with your ill founded claims. You and the ” pussy whipped” Paul MacCartnet should look beyond the histronics and check your facts. My shirt reads : ” I CLUB SEALS”
March 7th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
1. Good point, comparing a seal with a chicken. You must be very hugry to start killing seals, why don’t you just kill yourself?
2. Regulated? Monitored? Oh, you mean the videos they show all the time on tv on how “quick” and regulated they take off the skinn of the living animal? - Yeah, probably it’s just sience fiction and some animal lover make up these films! Strange only that the News companies, CNN, BBC, Reuters, etc. have a ton of archives qhich they wouldn’t even show to public since it’s fukin sick what you do ANY animal you fuck!
3. Concept of the contribution it makes to you fukin sick head? It’s not about fukin concepts! How about moral? Dignity, Respect for animals, as it wouldn’t be enough animals killed for human kind, noooo now we need seals AND WHALES! You fuck!
4.Sealers who “risk” their lives.. you fukin bitch! How damaged are you in your fukin brain! There are more people dying from mosquito bytes than from killing seals so go and fuck yourself!
5. I do not suggest Killing people who disagree LIKE YOU, but if YOU would participate directly or indirectly I really wouldn’t really like you alive, thats all you fuck!
6. Yeah.. I’ll check out the histronics and check my facts… probably it’s just somre BIiiiIIiig concpiracy on seals, to protect them.. none of the images are reals AND YOU NEED SEAL MEAT to whipe your fukin canadian ass!, Your frenchCanadian ass! Your Saint John ASS!
7. Oh, so your shirt can read? Good for it, I thought so because it seems you don’t bother really reading and defend the “poor” seamen just because YOU FUCK!”
March 7th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
PD: Sorry, but in my opinion you just make me mad and I kinda don’t feel starting any conversation with a piece of FUCK!
March 8th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
It’s always enlightening to debate with such a quick wit. Your use of ” fuck” is nothing short of inspired. Now I know who all this rhetoric and propoganda is affecting I’m not so worried about the seal hunt. With you on their side we have no worries.
March 8th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
Yeah, to debate with people who can’t read what’s writen infront of them it’s sure fun to “debate”, as if our comments would matter anyone but you, who seem to come back to check out what I wrote.
Honestly without using the word “fuck” this time, since it seems to confuse you, even if it’s just the best description for you, I will make it short.
First you compare seals with chicken.
Then you make a sensless statment about seamen in danger. Yeah, sure, poor seamen!
And you tell me that your economic wellfare needs unprofessional seahunters to provide your wealth..
“haven’t you got anything better to invest your energy?”
Then you tell me to get my facts right?
How right do you need them? As right as to say, seal hunt is a decent progress where the seals are killed in a way they don’t suffer, as same as of course cows and CHICKEN SHOULD be killed?
There is no debate, as there is no concept or any logic in your comments, so why should I take the time to think about a good answere to “debate” with you when I simply can tell you to fuck off! Go away, Don’t need people here that put statments on their t-shirts because it’s cool, or because your daddy told you that because chickens suffer, why shouldn’t seals suffer? right?
Haha.. “we have no worries” Exactly that’s the kind of people that contribute to the future in a way so we can all just ignore everything and do whatever we want without thinking about the consequenzess, etc… That’s a world where I want my kids to grow up”! yeepie!
You roule! Canada Rocks and Celine Dion probably is the best you got!
Go home and don’t worry about me, as I give a fuck about if you get stuck in the ice and somebody confuses you with a seal and sticks a shovel into your ass…
Common.. I’m waitng for your oh so enlightening “debate” without the word fuck.. it’s really impressive! How you can have so much fukin shit coming out of your mouth without using the word fuk, BRAVO!
Oh… I forgot, I have a life to go on planing how to kill each one of you, so hope your not to buisy coming back to comment.. but I’ll be checking, so I don’t miss your “enlightening” comments
March 8th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
Are you checking, you nitwit?
Try reading some books on the subject, I recommend Cassie Browne’s ” Death on The Ice ” and you’ll get a good idea of the danger sealers face on the ice. Much akin to the danger they face from the hysterical brain-washed likes of you. Kiss a seal, you stupid ignoramous.
March 8th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Ha! Is tha ALL you’ve got? You nitwit?
A book! Wow! You convinced me!
Look at me, look at me!
I am buying that propagand book!
yeah right!
What do people gain with propaganda against seal killing?
Seal killing brings money, as does whale killing and elefant ´killing you morran!
What do seal killers gain from writing books about the “dangers” on sea…
Think about it!
Go clean the roof of your house or something, and stop with this shit, please!
March 8th, 2006 at 7:22 pm
Oh and about your suggestion of reading some books on some fuk that nobody cares, I can only say why should I read a book that supports killing thousands of animals in a barbarian way?
Do you expect me to have some sort of feelings for those “brave” seamen?
Don’t you get it that this is a tradition that has been gone on for many years, and you stupid people just go on with your excuses to do whatever you think is ok in this life?
Well if you do that, why can’t I just drop a bomb on you? Why don’t everybody , Nation and Religious Groups just do anything we want?
I think the first thing I wrote in this blog, was pretty fair, I just said I wish people that do suffering to seals should suffer the same. = means if at least (what I don’t support) they would kill em in a decent way I would only wish dem to dye without suffering. Eye for an eye and no more.
Oh and really bad insult..”kiss a seal you stupid ignoramous”. Did you see that on tv, or did you come up with that story all by yourself? I don’t think so ..
since you kind of people just represent the definition of BRAINWASHED! and have no more than “are you checking, you nitwit?” or “Your use of ” fuck” is nothing short of inspired. Now I know …bla..bla”
I think this is my last post on some fuk like you, next time I won’t bother to spend time on you since there are more people against of seal killing than for it (obviously since only a few profit about it) and well, anything I say here won’t convince anybody as it’s just for bitching about people like you.. thank god I don’t have to meet you in person…
Fukin Ignorant!
March 9th, 2006 at 11:44 am
It is so touching to watch Ovi bring two hearts closer together.
March 9th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
In fact, your not so wrong Asa.
All these comments between marie traverse and me were hidden messages, and the real thing behind it was that we agreed that seals are lovley animals and that people that who hated them should just get a little spanking on their butt.
But actually we like each other… we are even thinking about meeting each other so we can laugh and have a lovely time together while kuddeling with a chicken, dogs and babys.
All my love to you marie traverse!
March 10th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
There are no explanations for human evil. Only excuses.
March 19th, 2006 at 1:17 am
Iwas looking at the photo of silly Paul and his loud mouth waif cuddling up to the cute little seal pup,and I was thinking,I liked their coats more than the seals.This gave me a great idea.Why don,t the seal hunters stop killing the seals,bring in more stupid celebritys and club them to death.They could take their coats without spilling any blood and make a killing on jewellery.barry
March 25th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
STOP THE HUNT!
Also Check out this T-SHIRT on EBAY
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8399146621
SAVE A SEAL, CLUB A CANADIAN!
I am a Canadian and ashamed ….we still behave like savages! What ever happened to EVOLVING! Are we a bunch of cave men here?? Stop giving all these lame excuses why it is acceptable to kill another living thing! There is nothing at all that justifies this kill..or any kill….nothing!
March 25th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Shame on you Marian, I’m a Canadian too and my thinking has evolved. I’m not like a caveman who might react more on emotion than logic. Where do you fall?
Why is it that people are against the killing of some 300,000 seals from a huge herd of almost 6 million?
We have the likes of Paul and Heather who live an opulant lifestyle. They own energy-sapping mansions and apartments throughout the world. They travel frequently on fuel guzzling private and commercial aircraft. They would suggest we should all wear synthetic clothing made from petroleum products. They might even go so far as to suggest that we all wear clothing made from cotton or hemp, without explaining which section of pristine boreal forest, rain forest, savannah, or prairie we should destroy to grow these crops.
The difference between the McCartney’s and the seal hunters is that celebrities like them are destroying our environment simply because they want to live the good life, the seal hunters are doing no such thing, they are harvesting a sustainable (yet cute looking) natural product in order to put bread on the table. The seal hunter’s environmentally sustainable lifestyle is out there for all to see. The McCartneys unsustainable lifestyle is best described as environmental destruction by stealth. But, at least they’re gentle people, not like those cruel seal hunters, the McCartney’s hug those cute little seals.
How many of us have boiled lobsters alive? How many of us have eaten meat from animals that have never seen a single hour of freedom but have been intentionally kept in captivity solely for the purpose of slaughter. I understand that such points identify almost all of us as bearing guilt, and that wouldn’t help anyone’s fundraising efforts would it?
So the answer is what? Do as Paul and Heather have done, suppress our personal guilt and pretend we’re better than seal hunters. This approach allows the rest of us to live in a glass fantasy world of denial and hypocrisy and throw stones at our media-hyped evil-doers of the seal hunt.
If you want to talk cruelty, speak of the human cruelty involved in spreading hatred by labeling people like those who kill seals as barbaric and inhumane. While people like Paul and Heather are doing that they can have another lobster or fine piece of veal for dinner.
Isn’t that ironic? If John Lennon were alive he may indeed add another verse to IMAGINE!
March 25th, 2006 at 11:04 pm
Hi Cluny.
I do understand what you mean and if I where not mind opened I’d probably say you are right, but I think there is just more to that simple saying.. if all flies eat shit, do we have to do the same?
“I’m not like a caveman who might react more on emotion than logic”
Probably in time of a caveman nobody had time to think about emotions, since survival was an everyday’s question. But today we can sit back in our caves, turn on the pc and feel emotions when we see bruce willis explode a building full of terrorists, but the important thing is.. that the human ability to share feelings and have faith and mercy is what defines each individual.
I don’t blame personaly people who don’t know better. But this doesn’t mean just because they don’t know better that it’s impossible to change things to a better way.
Talking about a “better” way it is difficult to define what’s good and evil because what people did 100 years ago we see as stupid or ignorant and today we couldn’t imagine doing such things.
So when the “reason” why seals, chicken, cows, etc. are being killed are based on things.. like.. well people who don’t kill seals or protect them are like “Paul and Heather who live an opulant lifestyle”, then this is just no real discution that might end in a “logical” conclution.
“The difference between the McCartney’s and the seal hunters is that celebrities like them are destroying our environment simply because they want to live the good life, the seal hunters are doing no such thing, they are harvesting a sustainable (yet cute looking) natural product in order to put bread on the table”
- In fact if you count the few celebrities that have the money to do what they do, with the mayority of the people like here in mexico, that still cook with coal, have 3 old cars that damage extreemly the environment and throw their trash under signs that say “don’t throw trash here” then you would notice that it’s not about what some celebrity does or what people do, but what the government and it’s workers that should have the intelligence of saving our resources (wood, animals, air, etc) do with their power. It is a shame to see that our world can’t think of better ways of doing things when todays technology is breaking through godlike miracles that can help millions of people.
Why do we still use gasoline? Not because we want to, but more because there’s too much money already invested in petroleum, so why do solar energy when the USA is even ready to go to war for gasoline?
“I understand that such points identify almost all of us as bearing guilt”
Yes, it is very probably that people are just to lazzy to complain or to doubt what the government is doing in OUR names, but to understand all this situations we have to substract everything that has nothing to do to the fact that doing wrong things and not being able to recognize them (o matter how desperate you are for seal souls) isn’t what you can call “EVOLUTION”
I have done wrong things and I directly support my society and my government and this indirectly hurts the environment, the human rights, the future and everything we destroy thanks to ignorance, excuses, and the indirect consequenzes we don’t manage, etc…
I could go on for years talking about it but to make it short:
I completley understand the supporters of seal hunters, but aswell as some cultures don’t eat pork and are disgusted by seing us eat it and as the same we are disgusted when seing them eat dogs…
I can only say, until we loose our stupid cultural rituals and defend things that we KNOW are not the correct ones, I will point my finger to all of the ignorants telling my kids not to grow to be like them, but learn how stupid humanity has been hundred years ago and how stupid we are now… it will take more then 100 years to start acting “evolved” so anyone who says.. I’m evolved, is just having his opinion about himself but could not really know what he would have thought 100 years in the future and using more than 6% of his brain.
Have a nice 100 years of life.. if you make it that far
March 25th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
I forgot:
“Why is it that people are against the killing of some 300,000 seals from a huge herd of almost 6 million?”
sorry but does it change the fact or makes it more “evolved” that there are animals being killed even if there where 100million of them?
“The difference between the McCartney’s and the seal hunters is that celebrities like them are destroying our environment simply because they want to live the good life, the seal hunters are doing no such thing,”
Well leting the fact out that McCartney has nothing to do with this topic, to say the truth you I just don’t understand what you said with:
You said: “celebrities like McCartney are destroying our environment” and then you said “the seal hunters are doing no such thing”. So my question to you is.. aren’t Seals part of the environment, and if not are they less important?
“The seal hunter’s environmentally sustainable lifestyle is out there for all to see”
So what , does that give them the right to do what they do?
“How many of us have boiled lobsters alive? How many of us have eaten meat from animals that have never seen a single hour of freedom but have been intentionally kept in captivity solely for the purpose of slaughter.”
So by mentioning this your saying: “if all flies eat shit, I should too” ???
“So the answer is what? Do as Paul and Heather have done, suppress our personal guilt and pretend we’re better than seal hunters.”
Answere to what? What has Paul to do whith seals? And it’s not about pretending being a better person, it’s about recognizing the errors you do. Of course for you and the nice cute little seahunters this aint an error because you have “evolved”
“This approach allows the rest of us to live in a glass fantasy world of denial and hypocrisy and throw stones at our media-hyped evil-doers of the seal hunt”
Well better thowing stones than with crossed arms. Or do you think Canada existed just without doing anything? Everything has to evolve and by doing things over and over again without asking yourself if there is another way, I would say you got stucked in “evolution”
“If you want to talk cruelty, speak of the human cruelty involved in spreading hatred by labeling people like those who kill seals as barbaric and inhumane”
Yes, I guess that is really unforgivable cruel. We should kill those bad finger pointers.
March 25th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
If there was no other way then killing seals, couldn’t they be killed with more accuracy? At least a quick death??? Not that I suport killing, but does it have to be so barbarian?
March 26th, 2006 at 1:11 am
I read with some interest the point by point analysis of my previous submission. I’m sure the the same facile role of critic will be delivered in response to this submission as well.
I must apologize to some if I did not differentiate clearly enough between environmental destruction by choice versus environmental damage by default. I read my earlier communication again and am not sure how I might be able to simplify this point any further.
I will say that selective environmentalists amaze me. Where were they during the 1980s and 1990s when the off-shore cod stocks off eastern Canada were being raped by EU countries, against the international protest of the Canadian government. At the same time they were committing this environmental crime, these same hypocritical EU countries banned the importation of Canadian seal pelts. Guess what, their selective environmental policies impressed the cute-creature-centred environmentalists, even when the Grand Bank cod stocks were approaching extinction. Even now they are raping the nose and tail of the Grand Banks which, unfortunately, remain outside Canada’s jurisdiction. But as Paul and Heather says, one creature at a time, cute trumps extinction every time.
A final point, I was interested to see the use of hateful words which included “kill” in reponse to a logical agrument. I am wondering if it impresses the more peaceful protesters of the seal hunt who may be reading this blog? Then again maybe they want to selectively remain silent on this as well.
March 26th, 2006 at 2:41 am
“I’m sure the the same facile role of critic will be delivered in response to this submission as well.”
Yes
I think it is important to discuss things point by point since all these points make the big idea, don’t you think?
“I must apologize to some if I did not differentiate clearly enough between environmental destruction by choice versus environmental damage by default.”
You don’t have to apoligize for the way you difference destruction by choice and by default, since you have stated enough other points that show your argumentation and I am sure it’s understandable.
“I will say that selective environmentalists amaze me. Where were they during the 1980s and 1990s when the off-shore cod stocks off eastern Canada were being raped by EU countries, against the international protest of the Canadian government.”
Some of them were probably not even born and some too young or to tired to risk their lives, just ask them.
I think it doesn’t really help to point to another problem when we haven’t even started to understand this one. I might remember you the topic is: Seal Hunt, not why do seal hunt protestors eat chicken or why they don’t save whales.
“At the same time they were committing this environmental crime, these same hypocritical EU countries banned the importation of Canadian seal pelts.”
I thought always EU is more “evolved” and I think seal pelt shouldn’t really be imported anywhere because it’s not like if human life would depend on it, so I guess we can also live without it.
“At the same time they were committing this environmental crime, these same hypocritical EU countries banned the importation of Canadian seal pelts.”
The same thing here.. if we are talking about one thing it does not help to point to other things that have nothing to do.. and it’s pretty logical that there aren’t many environmentalists being active enough to splitt in 3 pieces and be at 5 different ponts of the world at the same time. There will always be a problem somewhere, but you can’t expect people that want to help in one section to distract themselves splitting their energy in everything that is going on in this world because it would be sensless and would have no results at all.
“But as Paul and Heather says, one creature at a time, cute trumps extinction every time.”
Yes I think it doesn’t matter if it’s Paul or Heather or Satan, but important for me is that at least to talk about it so people might have the choice to decide what is good and bad. And I think if you Canadians had no other choice, then at least the problem wouldn’t be the ignorant people, but more the fact that Canada needs meat and pelts.
“A final point, I was interested to see the use of hateful words which included “kill” in reponse to a logical agrument. ”
I would like to read that “logical argument”
And if you ahven’t noticed, by mentioning the word KILL and in reference to kill those who “point with the finger” as saying… those are seal hunters, those are bad people, those don’t try to protect the environment by doing those horrible acts like spreading pain and suffering to living species, You could say it is meant Ironically.. since the ones who’d be killed in my sentence would be ME and people who protect seals. So if you can’t handle “hateful” words, then just ignore them.
” am wondering if it impresses the more peaceful protesters of the seal hunt who may be reading this blog? Then again maybe they want to selectively remain silent on this as well. ”
Actually I am pretty sure on this blog aren’t more than 5 people a day since that’s what my statistics say, but as I said before, there aren’t too many people that try to participate directly in protecting seals or other things, so I doubt this blog will have too many people either in my or your favor.
And no, I don’t think they are “impressed” by my “hateful” words, since they all have seen those “lovely” KILLING scenes on TV.
March 26th, 2006 at 4:01 am
You seemed to have missed my point again, I have never threatened to kill any of the finger pointers, you suggested these hateful words about how I may be thinking. My point was that these words speak more to your train of thought than mine. Do not suggest that people like myself bear hatred towards seal hunt protesters, we do not, we simply are frustrated by their logic and hateful tactics.
So the topic is the seal hunt, very selective once again. Apparently your cause seems not to be environmental sustainability but exclusively cute little seals being killed. That’s the absolute weakness in your argument that you share with Paul and Heather. You also seem to believe that media cute trumps extinction. How convenient.
“You Canadians”? What’s that suppose to mean? Your not spreading hatred again are you? Can you name at least three other countries which allow an annual seal hunt? It seems that their policy of banning all media from their seal hunts is working for you as well. Out of site, out of mind?
I never said killing is lovely, it isn’t. The sea otters of Alaska are very appreciative of the fact they died a slow and painful death I’m sure. Aw, but that was unintentional. For some strange reason, our Canadian seal hunt killings being on TV and open to discussion makes it worse than the hidden killings in the slaughter houses. Oops, sorry, I forgot, it’s all about the cute seals.
By the way, did you know that cute seal pups are dying on our shores up here because of a lack of large pans of sea ice. They are pupping on beaches, only to be crushed by small ice pans and eventually drowned as the waves roll in. Have you witnessed first-hand a mother seal trying to keep her pup afloat as its body is shattered and it drowns. An act of God, I think not. Global warming, I think so. Seals are swimming into fresh water rivers and lakes to find food. An act of God, I think not. EU overfishing, I think so. So you really care for these cute seal more than we “Canadians” do you? Then aim your protest where it really belongs! Oops, I forgot again, this is about the Canadian seal hunt, we’ll have to discuss other aspects of a seal’s life on another blog.
Prioriy one is to spread hatred of those Canadian sealers around the world first. The near extinction of eastern Canadian off-shore cod and global warming will have to wait. They’re sooo dull to cover in the media when compared to the blood of seals on the white ice; much less potential for fundraising. So what if seals are dying slow and painful deaths because of these arm-length inhumane crimes against the environment? Our seal protest must not offend those who are financially supporting our cause, and they have evolved enough to ban seal pelts. Suffering seals be damned!
I’m sure the few readers we have are anxious to understand this logic of selective protest and hatred. Please explain it a little more to us.
March 26th, 2006 at 5:00 am
“we do not, we simply are frustrated by their logic and hateful tactics.”
As are we about your “loveley” tactics on killing seals.
“Apparently your cause seems not to be environmental sustainability but exclusively cute little seals being killed”
I never use as an argument that seals shouldn’t be killed because they look cute. In fact I don’t even think they do. And my “cause” at least doesn’t need weak excuses like yours trying to talk about everything else but the fact that thank to people like you animals suffer horrible deaths.
““You Canadians”? What’s that suppose to mean? Your not spreading hatred again are you? Can you name at least three other countries which allow an annual seal hunt? It seems that their policy of banning all media from their seal hunts is working for you as well. Out of site, out of mind?”
Actually I mean YOU and your surrounding, since you are living surrounded by Canadians and living as Canadian law allows. As it’s Canadian law that allows Seal hunting. And yes, as I said before there ARE other places where horrible things happen but you have to start with one, not all of them. Can you imagine how confusing this gets when in fact we just want to say that the way you kill seals is as horrible as muslims kill women for betrayal.
” never said killing is lovely, it isn’t. The sea otters of Alaska are very appreciative of the fact they died a slow and painful death I’m sure. Aw, but that was unintentional. For some strange reason, our Canadian seal hunt killings being on TV and open to discussion makes it worse than the hidden killings in the slaughter houses. Oops, sorry, I forgot, it’s all about the cute seals.”
Yes it seems you always forget about what it is about. The word “loveley” is chosen on purpose to use it as Ironicly meaning only for people like you that can’t focus on the subject because being distracted by hateful words like “killing”, “you candians”, etc.
“So you really care for these cute seal more than we “Canadians” do you?”
Well if your definition of “care” is killing them, then I guess not.
“Then aim your protest where it really belongs! Oops, I forgot again, this is about the Canadian seal hunt, we’ll have to discuss other aspects of a seal’s life on another blog.”
Actually this is a simple blog, not an activist protest or Seal Hunt Protest Blog, but I guess you just forget the real fact that it doesn’t matter if your Canadian or Mexican, but that the topic is if it is ok to kill seals the way it’s being done and if there is no other way to prevent this? And this doesn’t mean we are ONLY focusing on Canada, since it’s about Seals for now, isn’t it?
“Prioriy one is to spread hatred of those Canadian sealers around the world first. The near extinction of eastern Canadian off-shore cod and global warming will have to wait.”
And as I said before too, there aren’t enough activists and even if there were, you know what happened with Bush goint to war. Remember how many millions protested? And what happened? Of course I understand you seal killers have no idea of how the principles of a person work that is trying to do a change even if it’s not somewhere far in africa or in canada, you just do what you can or want and talking about me the only thing I can do at this time is to write in this blog, since I haven’t got much money or time to be a real protester. What of course would be great if it was possible to have directly influence in the governments decicions.. but who cares about what the people say, right? Important it is that the money flows to the rich and the poor loose their rights and minds. God Bless Humand Race!
“Our seal protest must not offend those who are financially supporting our cause, and they have evolved enough to ban seal pelts. Suffering seals be damned!”
Well thanks to those financially suporting your cause, it hasn’t been possible to stop seal killing and if you want to imagine a fantasy world where the killed animals didn’t suffer a horrible death than go on dreaming of it, because you are doing no right or excuse in believing that it’s ok what you are doing.
And as I said before, if all flies eat shit, do I have to? If the environmental damage caused by humanity is killing seals worse than seal hunters, then I guess it’s ok to go on killing seals? Or should we even be more encouraged to see what horrible damage humanity has done and talk about all these other things that seems to be more important than seal killing.
“I’m sure the few readers we have are anxious to understand this logic of selective protest and hatred. Please explain it a little more to us. ”
Selective protest is the reflect of many individuals that can’t go on living a fantasy world where kids grow up going to Burger King and Kentucky believing there is no bad behind it. Probalby it does nothing to your finacnial supporters, but at least we can tell and aknowledge the people that surround us so that we don’t live in a totally ignorant world.
It’s ok what you believe and I think the only thing I can say to you people is that if you had a bit more opened minds you wouldn’t be trying to explain your actions with all these irrelevant topics that have nothing to do directly with the fact that people support indirectly or directly the mass murdering of living species in a way that I get sick just of thinking how humanity has become when we are a race with intelligence and power to change the future because we invent it and it’s no other than ourselves that take the desicion to believe something is right or wrong.
It makes me sad to believe that there is no hope, no faith in good anymore because there are “reasons” to do what is being done.
I appologize to all you seal killers if my emotions drove me to use mean words and maybe even to insult individuals, but it’s like one of thousand desperate acts from an indiividual that reflects a stone being thrown against a wall with no reaction or impact, just the believe that even if it’s only a stone that goes the opposite direction of the wall, it knows it goes the right direction and if it get’s crushed it will die believing in good, since it has gone the most of the time in the wrong direction many of us can’t hold that guilt we feel deep in us that reminds us of our concience and gives us another choice that says it’s not all lost because we did wrong in the past, but there is so much future infront of us that even if we won’t make it there, if we remember the right way, we will be able to teach our kids and maybe they’ll be able to fix a bit of the damage we have left them.
Anyways, I guess my words will be only understood by myself and some people that probably will use them to throw them again at me stating that all my thoughts are nothing but weak arguments that are either evoluted, nor logical.
God bless
March 26th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Oli, you’re a good person. I guess in conclusion we respectfully disagree about the Canadian seal hunt.
March 26th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
Thank you,
I guess that’s better than spending hours trying to proove the others rights or wrongs, so maybe our words may be wrong but our different perspectives on this topic do not admit letting go on the idea that it might be possible to bring the oponents to our side or at least nearer to us, since you are an example that represents somebody that is for seal hunt but against suffering, and that for me is one first step that makes me feel better than thinking there are only horrible sadistic people laughing at us animal lovers without a cent of respect or comprehention.
So I hope in future, no matter what is the right way, we will be able to see it
March 28th, 2006 at 6:28 am
Not really sure what you’re waving a protest flag at. Hunting seals or hunting seals by clubbing them. Also, did you know that cows are killed in an inhumane way as well? Rounded up and shot through the head with a cylinder which slams through their skull. Also, pigs and chickens are killed inhumanly as well.
I think you need to educate yourself a little more than those celebrities with too much money, not enough brains left after too much drugs and shear boredom have forced them out of hiding in order to promote their image to the masses.
Just a thought.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:43 am
Yes it seems it’s just a thought. And one with no much behind it since it seems you haven’t been paying atention to this.
As I have said many times, does the fact that chicken and cows are being killed brutally justify the killing of seals or any species? I guess when somebody is talking about “if seal killing is okay or not” the topic about chickens and cows does not really help in any way does it?
Who said Chickens and Cows should suffer? In one aspect of people that “protest” against seal killing they also favor to stop the killings of all kinds of animals in a unhuman way.
The fact that some people care and try to end suffering by doing a simple thing like talking and discussing that it doesn’t have to be as it is and if it definitivley does, at least it should be not painfull.
In one way or the other I’m getting pretty tired of the lame excuses with “if all flies eat shit, why shouldn’t we too?” I mean what the fuck have chickens to do with this when seals, cows and muslim women are being killed in a unhuman way like millions other species which of course none of the seal hunt protestors would favor since it’s not about how cute an animal has to look to deserve a decent death if necesary, but more about if we humans can start using our brains and think about what we are doing and most important HOW we are doing it. We are not being a good example for our children since some day they will ask us.. and what is a tree? what is a dog? or what is air? They will all know a fucked up world where their dadys and momys just spend all day long looking at TV , hearing music from druged celebrities and using such creative excuses like… don’t worry honey, it’s ok to kill and let species suffer, since KENTUCKY and MCDONALDS do the same to chickens and muslim women, so if THEY do it, it MUST BE OKAY!
<—really getting tired of this LAME excuses and more about the way these people write it dows.. like “I think you need to educate yourself a little more”… yeah right! Cause educate means to go with the masses and support all destructive behavior.
You know what… I am very dissapointed of ALL OVI BLOG READERS, since I know it’s not much (not even 5 a day) but I really thought I’d get a ity little bit more support on this one. But it seems not even Ovi readers care enough… so Good Night World!
March 28th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
I started to go into a tirad to feed Oli’s needs but I would rather point you to this site. http://www.thesealfishery.com
March 29th, 2006 at 12:29 am
Thank you Mike. I took a look at the site and I must say this is no new thing for me.
But as many of you Pro seal hunting fans haven’t noticed I must repeat that the fact I am against seal hunting is neither greenpeace nor any financially purpose since I got no money at all, and all this ovi work and writing isn’t payed either for me or the other ovi members, so somehow we must separate if there are groups gaining profit from protesting anything, and from those groups that simply state one thing clearly:
THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO MAKE ANY SPECIES SUFFER!
Is that SOOOO hard to comprehend? And about my comment of the muslim women, I got a pretty nasty reply stating:
“What do Muslim women have to do with it? this is exactly what you ninny protestors do–distort the picture so that killing seals is equivalent to killing babies and now, Muslim women.”
And I have to say to this:
YOU SEE? I made that muslim women example and “IRONY” statment so you pro seal hunters se how it looks when every five seconds one of you say: “Did you know chicken and cows are killed…”
I mean If the title of this article would have been Sir Paul Protests against muslim women OR chicken killing in Kentucky, THEN it wouldn’t change a thing! I would also be against it and would try to argument that if chicken are necesary for food production, at least they could kill em fast and painless.
That simple! What is it with you pro killing suffering animals people that you always search for some excuse like… well greenpeace, or.. BLABLABLA,
I know and YOU know that there is absolutley no justification to do the things you do in a harmfull bad way. And even if you killed them fast and quick there is still the question: “Who the fuck gives us humans the right to kill for FUR ?” You know exactly why seals aren’t being shot! So no damage on the fur will bring the price down, and the ridicoulous statment of .. well the meat and everything else is being processed too, is none valid since it is not necesary to kill them because of not enough food!
Anyways.. I don’t see where this is going when every 5 min. somebody states an argument that just isn’t one.
My argument is none, because I don’t need to argue about if humanity is able to recognize what is right or wrong.. we all know it, but the most uf us are so brainwashed it seems no matter how often you show them their errors, they won’t notice ever.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
I noticed you deleted my reply because you found it ” nasty”. I believe nasty can be defined by last year’s actions when an organized group of seal protestors obtained the phone numbers of wives and children of the sealers. While the men were on the ice, this ” socially conscious” group made hourly phone calls threatening the women and children. Do you then wonder why the sealers feel the need to lash out at this bunch when they see them at their place of work. This is much more than clubbing or shooting seals whose population has exploded. This is mainly about well-intended people being hoodwinked by large organizations so they can yearly fill their coffers on the hype.
March 29th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
Well I don’t understand how you use this as an argument that people that are in favor of protecting animals are worse than those who kill them.
And if you remember you “nasty” email, you will notice that you aren’t so different from those people who terrorize the families of seal hunters, since you wish worse to those protecting animals.
I do not think it’s ok to terrorize people that have nothing to do with the horrible things other people do, but to compare those “terrorists” with people who are against seal hunting is just not right.
Marie:
I do not understand why people in favor of seal hunting come to this blog saying things like… “but chicken and cows do also suffer” and then I take it as an example and say.. well so if chicken, cows and muslim women suffer too, does that mean it’s okay to make more and moe suffering?”
If you notice what’s behind my sentence, it is not that I am comparing muslim women, with chickens. But more the fact that there is no difference anymore to whom we “the humanity” is doing this suffering to. Important is that you see that humans are suddenly so agressive and hateful towards any other species even their own. And also my muslim women example was to make the point that it’s not justified to say :” because this is being done, it’s okay to do this…” No matter what the reason is.. it’s like saying : ” Since the world is already fucked up, why even try?” right?
March 30th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
Hey Oli,
grab a wad of that seal oil, I hear it does wonders for erections.. Then proceed to “rub one out,” that may calm you down some…
Marie hit the nail on the head in her allusion to “armchair protesters.” These activists are so entangled in their crusade (oh shit, I just pulled a “Bush”) that they fail to even try and understand the economic reliance that many Inuit communities have on the hunt. Then we get some pussy rockers like Morrissey speaking up, as if that adds credibility to their side…
Bottomline is the visual attraction of the harp seal is what has these protestors wasting their time year after year. Their “cute-factor” is what fuels the protest… Do you really think Paul and Morrissey would be speaking out over the hunt of Ass-monkeys in Utah?
March 30th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
Is Bridgette Bardot the ” Ass-monkey” you’re talking about?
March 30th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
Now we have Pamela Anderson joining the fray. There is no good end to this debate and I fear that violence will prevail. The protestors should not be allowed on the ice and next year all the service providers in the area should boycott them–no gas, no hotels etc.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
Hi Iv,
Thank you very much for your tips on rubbing one out, but instead of getting my erections by watching animals suffer, I prefer to have a natural one.
“Marie hit the nail on the head in her allusion to “armchair protesters.” ”
Exactly that’s a comment I expected from somebody like you. If THAT is hitting the nail on the head, then I guess that’s all you can do.
“These activists are so entangled in their crusade (oh shit, I just pulled a “Bush”) that they fail to even try and understand the economic reliance that many Inuit communities have on the hunt.”
Same as you seal hunters in your crusade.
“fail to even try and understand” <– exactly that is what YOU do. In fact I said in a earlier comment that I understand that people do this for a tradition and that many aren’t even aware of it as a bad thing since they grew up knowing that people eat animals and well they have to killem and if they get killed in a bad way it doesn’t even trigger a feeling on these people. I can’t blame the people who gre up ignorantly teached by there parents. But I can blame the government that has the obligation to look forward to the BEST of their country and environmen. And if it was a cause of animal regulation (so they don’t overpopulate) then there is still the question why do they kill them brutally? Oh I gorgot.. it’s so the FUR doen’t get damaged and with that loses its value!
“Then we get some pussy rockers like Morrissey speaking up, as if that adds credibility to their side”
Yeah, because the fact more and more celebrities are against meat eating or letting animals suffer MEANS it gets more credibility! Listen to yourslef!
“Their “cute-factor” is what fuels the protest…”
Oh, I see. So now YOU know what fuels the protest right. As I supose you haven’t read lately what I have writen. It doesn’t matter if it’s and ugly chicken, pork or seal. What the POINT is is that they are LIVING SPECIES with FEELINGS and a right to live. Humanity has steped over the line by deciding who dies and who lives, but that beside I will never ever understand the reason why killing has to be so brutal when we have the technologie to bring quick and painless deaths…
Anyways, I guess everything I say isn’t even being read and you seal hunter fans fail to even try and understand.
“Do you really think Paul and Morrissey would be speaking out over the hunt of Ass-monkeys in Utah?”
I guess not. But does it mean that now we are judging if something is “credible” or “worth” depending on WHO speaks out? So what if Paul, Pamela or E.T. are against ealhunting.. the point isn’t WHO IS AGAINST IT, but more why is it wrong and why shoul it be stopped as same as with chicken, cows and monkey farms. Even our own species should be stoped to kill each other for religous reasons or differences, but as you know humanity is more barbaric than when the stone age was.. at least then they killed for food and women, not oil and FUR!
March 30th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
It is difficult to understand a way of life you have never lived. If you had grown up in an Inuit community hunting and killing of animals would be part of your second nature. Not because it is a pleasant or happy thing to watch any animal die, but it may be a matter of survival. I believe in a clean and swift killing of any animal. Some of the comments posted here are nothing short of threatening propaganda, directed at a group of people, with little, or no knowledge, of how we live our lives. Today’s world has put everyone under the microscope when it comes to personal opinions, but for Gods sake get the facts straight before sending out a hit team. Most pro seal hunt opinions come from an area where they grew up with it, and let me take a guess at those of you that disagree #1 Urban childhood #2 Never ate wild game meat #3 Probably would have difficulty surviving in a natural environment. Are you so naive as to think humans would have evolved without killing animals of any kind? I don’t think a video camera has a place in a slaughter of animals of any kind weather it is in a pork, chicken, beef, processing plant or on ice flows which has a crimson blood stain on a white background. Lets face it; it’s not a pretty sight. If you have not availed of any products as the result of the killing of some type of animal then I guess you have a right to complain, but be cautious there are a lot of things you must give up. Sir Paul and Lady Heather they didn’t even know where they were at must have been a flashback or the buzz hadn’t worn off. The time those idiot seal protestors spend with a white coat seal pup had sentenced it to death as the mother would have abandoned it. They had to have forced the mother away in order to get so close to the pup. Maybe the clubbing should stop due to its medieval appearance, and maybe they should be executed like some of your prisoners are in your death row jails.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
Is that all you can do? Copy paste?
March 31st, 2006 at 12:10 am
Oli,
you have copped out, and contradicted yourself so badly in your statement that I don’t even know where to begin..
I’ll start with my stance, as I didn’t include it in my first post. I am against the Seal Hunt. I feel that the industry has nearly become obsolete, with the declarations of powerful organizations such as the EU declaring any seal products as “contraband.” As a matter of fact, the only reason I found this site, was in an information search for a paper of the same stance… Yet, I clearly understand that many Canadians are utterly reliant on this annual event. As much as you would love to snap your fingers adn end this thing, you have no idea what the socio-economic repercussions would be.
But for you to state “the POINT is is that they are LIVING SPECIES with FEELINGS and a right to live. Humanity has steped over the line by deciding who dies and who lives”
is utterly ridiculous, and you know it… How many other animals have you consumed today?? Because if you have had any beef, the odds are that its extermination process isn’t much more glamorous then that of the seals.. Let’s take it a step further. How many humans die each day to provide us with products that we often don’t even “need.” All of the major petroleum companies operate refineries out of the Nigeria Delta-region… Innocent Nigerians die for this reason all the time, so that we all can have our 94 octane gasoline… It is sad, but it is a reality.
So to even attempt to credibilize your argument by stating that living species with feelings have a right to live is total bullshit, because you consume products on a daily basis that contradicts the notion… We all do.
Stop trying to be all bold and suggest wider implications of our actions, when you are guilty of the same crimes.. And finally, don’t even try and suggest that Inuits are ignorant for their hunting practice. I am pretty sure you are American, and if I am correct, then I could just as easily be ignorant like you, and say “you people do worse things to humans every fucking day.”
March 31st, 2006 at 12:13 am
Well I have read this post on another blog and I found it a bit interesting but not so different from other stuff you seal hunt fans write.
“It is difficult to understand a way of life you have never lived”
-Exactly and this is also for YOU since it seems you have never live a life without depending on cruel animal furs that help your economics a bit.
“If you had grown up in an Inuit community hunting and killing of animals would be part of your second nature. Not because it is a pleasant or happy thing to watch any animal die, but it may be a matter of survival.”
-Yes I do agree with you and must say I do not blame people that grew up in a environment where the killing of animals was a need for survival. Exactly that is one big reason I am against Seal Hunting. There is no such need for survival by killing seals in a unhuman way only because they don’t want to damage the fur.
“I believe in a clean and swift killing of any animal. Some of the comments posted here are nothing short of threatening propaganda, directed at a group of people, with little, or no knowledge, of how we live our lives. ”
-Yes you said it: YOU BELIEVE. But that doesn’t mean it is done clean and “swift”. And about you comment to “Some of the comments posted here are…” I can only say it does not apply to this blog and either to this one: http://www.liberalavenger.com/2006/03/17/seal-hunt-vs-iraq/
“Today’s world has put everyone under the microscope when it comes to personal opinions, but for Gods sake get the facts straight before sending out a hit team.”
-This is NOT about personal opinios or some “reasons” you call facts. And in your comment it seems you do not favor to analyze people. I can’t find a logic in it because every one of us contributes indirectly to a big problem. Its exactly our individual personal opinions that make a difference. And it doesn’t change a thing to view YOUR facts, since they are always the same: They don’t kill baby seals, it’s important for our economy (money hungry?), there are also chickens and cows being killed, so why not kill seals too but of course for different reasons like cheap FUR.
“Most pro seal hunt opinions come from an area where they grew up with it, and let me take a guess at those of you that disagree #1 Urban childhood #2 Never ate wild game meat #3 Probably would have difficulty surviving in a natural environment.”
-Hmmm.. I guess that’s what I thought of too. Living in an area where it is comon to do horrible things you can’t blame anyone for doing it, right? And I guess the reason for ALL those animal lovers might be because they #1 had an urban childhood #2 they have never eaten wild game meat and the most impressive of all #3 Probably would have difficulty surviving in a “natural” environment.
Yes! haha.. because we still are in the stone age right? go kill thing, eat raw, yummy yummy!
“Are you so naive as to think humans would have evolved without killing animals of any kind?”
-Ha! this is getting better and better. Naive? Didn’t you just use the past tense in EVOLUTED? You said it we are evoluted, so why do we behave as if we still have to evolute? Nowadays nobody has to go out in the cold to kill a seal to SURVIVE! or to EVOLUTE! You go to school and learn new technologies that alow us to preserve our world and NATURE!
I guess at the stone age it didn’t matter how many trees, seals or fires where used because our environment hadn’t been damages as much as it has now, THANKS to whom?
“I don’t think a video camera has a place in a slaughter of animals of any kind weather it is in a pork, chicken, beef, processing plant or on ice flows which has a crimson blood stain on a white background. Lets face it; it’s not a pretty sight.”
- NO? Why, to IGNORE the fact that what we eat was a living thing? You just said it: ITS NOT A PRETTY SIGHT. And why do you think it’s not pretty? Because we humans have an unique ability which separates us from other species aswell.. we identify with that dead body lying there. And if we SEE the pain these animals go through, we feel as if it was done to us. Of course I guess the “evoluted” seal hunters do not have so called fellings.
“If you have not availed of any products as the result of the killing of some type of animal then I guess you have a right to complain, but be cautious there are a lot of things you must give up.”
-I very much disagree, since todays world has almost NO place where children aren’t growing up by eating meat and supporting indirectly all animal killing farms. I think everyone has a right to complain about cruelty done to living species. And otherwise those who are against killing , no matter if painless or not, should probably not eat meat at all. But the fact they want to stop animals suffering doesn’t mean they would want to go on eating meat.
You have to understand that there are MILLIONS of cigarette adicts and not because they smoke it means they have no right to condemn cigaretts or to even PROTEST against cigarette companies.
Am I wrong in asuming if all those meat eater would like to stop animals from being killed but since it’s almost adictive too to go to an easy shop and see the prepared saussage, they obviously forget what they are doing!But if they all agreed on stoping the killings… obviously as same as with the cigaretts: if no product, no consumer. People would have to acostumbrate to the NEW WAY OF LIFE and start using evolutions lessons!
No matter what you do you have always the right to leave your past behind you and start over again.
“The time those idiot seal protestors spend with a white coat seal pup had sentenced it to death as the mother would have abandoned it. They had to have forced the mother away in order to get so close to the pup. Maybe the clubbing should stop due to its medieval appearance, and maybe they should be executed like some of your prisoners are in your death row jails. ”
-And that means what? Is there any conclusion of that sentence? I also do not favor the death sentence like in many countries used, because there not only die hundresds of inocents each year, but it’s just not fair to kill someone and doing as wrong as he did. Jailing them and using them as working people would be more productive and it would still save many inocents.
So, I guess that was it, right? Since I’m sure the person who wrote this isn’t reading OVI, I guess I won’t become an answere to this.
But anyways to finish up I’d like to say:
The reason we all know why these things are being done are very simple to understand. First there where native comunities that had it as a tradition to kill for survival. Then while humans evoluted it became a “style” to wear FUR and leather, so somehow we aren’t talking about some small native group that kills for living. And even if it was so, we have the possibility of teching them to do things a better way.
Many of you may want to preserve those “rituals” and culture style of life but I must say that history has always shown that even the indigenous indians here in Mexico sometimes do more damage because of not enough knowledge. They used and still do burn kilometers of trees and since they couldn’t control it they burned too much and this because of US not teaching people how to do things right.
Yeah Iv- I’m sure youre “against” seal hunting.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:18 am
No Oli… I am lying to save face.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:28 am
Iv,
“I’ll start with my stance, as I didn’t include it in my first post. I am against the Seal Hunt.”
- Hm if you are against it why so much wind about my arguments?
“As much as you would love to snap your fingers adn end this thing, you have no idea what the socio-economic repercussions would be. ”
-I guess it would not harm if it would change from one day to the other, but thinking about my experience on this planet I would say we have another 100 years until that.
“But for you to state “the POINT is is that they are LIVING SPECIES with FEELINGS and a right to live. Humanity has steped over the line by deciding who dies and who lives” is utterly ridiculous, and you know it…”
There is a huge difference to kill for necesity or for fun. And seal killing is a created necesity that you can compare with fun. Of course the seal hunters aren’t having fun in the cold but it’s so a guy can make a nice present to his girlfriend (fur clothing) so they have FUN!
No it is not rediculous, or do you think it’s ok to kill muslim women just because men think so? As same as a human being feels pain so do animals and it’s such irresponsible of you to change the topic from seals to humans by stating
“How many humans die each day to provide us with products that we often don’t even “need.” ”
So you see the unfairness that is being done to them right. So if this was a Human Rights blog, I would agree with you and we’d be chatting lovely for ever. BUT this aint about humans or CHICKENS! It’s about Seals that aren’t even killed because we need food! It’s for money and thats a fact!
“So to even attempt to credibilize your argument by stating that living species with feelings have a right to live is total bullshit, ”
Okay, so I guess the best thing is to ignore all suffering on seals and talk about some other stuf… maybe some other oil for erections you recomend?
“Stop trying to be all bold and suggest wider implications of our actions, when you are guilty of the same crimes.. And finally, don’t even try and suggest that Inuits are ignorant for their hunting practice.”
Reas my other posts I think I have discussed very deeply all those “arguments” you throw at me. And as I said before just because there is a native group doing it it doesn’t meant its ok!
“I am pretty sure you are American, and if I am correct, then I could just as easily be ignorant like you, and say “you people do worse things to humans every fucking day.” ”
Your statment to say I was american has nothing to do with my opinions. In fact I represent MYSELF not a bunch of idiots sitting in the government. And as a matter of fact I am not american and I have lived for very long time in europe, mexico and all these places you ignorants probably don’t even know where they are.
“I am pretty sure you are American, and if I am correct, then I could just as easily be ignorant like you, and say “you people do worse things to humans every fucking day.”<- I forgot to say about this.. you are contradicting yourself. You people are the ones that use EXACTLY that same frase by saying ” Did you know chickens and cows are being killed too?” and it’s the tipical… “well if all flies eat shit, then why shouldn’t we too?” So instead of recognizing the problem that humanity is killing everything to extinction, you just ARGUE with.. well if the americans do bad things to people WE HAVE THE RIGHT to do it to seals!
Now that’s BULLSHIT!
So to tell you what I think.. I think it’s not worthy to respond to a reacist person like you that doesn’t even try a bit to see the cause but I will do it just to be fair.
Anyways have a nice day.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:52 am
PD: “you have copped out, and contradicted yourself so badly in your statement that I don’t even know where to begin..” Why you don’t just begin by telling me in WHAT I have contradicted myself.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:09 am
Calling me a racist is a bold statement considering my “questionable” post was in response to you calling the inuit people ignorant…
Furthermore I think that your primary argument against the seal hunt seems as if it is because we are killing innocent animals, and we shouldn’t have the right too.. (I may be wrong..)
I agree with you. But I think it is difficult to make this argument, because as I said before, you, I, and everyone contradicts this notion daily in our consumption habits…
Now I understand that seal hunting is different then those who slaughter cows, as one is arguably more necessary then the other but if you asked me if one was more compliant to the whole “What the POINT is is that they are LIVING SPECIES with FEELINGS and a right to live” argument, I would have to say no.
At the end of the day, I feel that people should absolutely have a right to disagree with the hunt, but I feel that the whole event is misrepresented by the media, and the result is a “fanatical” theme that I disagree with. Furthermore media representations illustrate McCartney, and apparently now Pamela Anderson as so-called figure-heads, yet Anderson probably has a fur wardrobe that could rival a zoo… The contradictions are endless, which makes my cynical to the notion that someone can credibly dispute events such as this, while they are consumers of similar ones.
I do however feel that an apology is owed to you Oli… Although I disagree with many of your points, the personal attacks on you were unneccessary.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:24 am
“Calling me a racist is a bold statement considering my “questionable” post was in response to you calling the inuit people ignorant”
So if I call somebody Ignorant because they don’t know better it gives you the right to say I am an american ignorant? Even if you don’t know what Country I’m from? I don’ know what you have against american, but to bring this into talk is ridiculous.
“Furthermore I think that your primary argument against the seal hunt seems as if it is because we are killing innocent animals, and we shouldn’t have the right too.. (I may be wrong..)”
It is not only that I don’t favor killing for fun, but also that killing in an unhuman way doesn’t have to be if they’d spend a bit more money on equipment.
“I agree with you. But I think it is difficult to make this argument, because as I said before, you, I, and everyone contradicts this notion daily in our consumption habits…”
I do perfectly understand you and I must say that this is a problem. But as I compared before an Diction to food can be like to cigaretts, and this does not mean that because you did wrong in the past you may not change to a better human by complaining about cigarett companies or mass food productions. You know as I do that adictions may control many people that in real have a small decire to stop it.
“Now I understand that seal hunting is different then those who slaughter cows, as one is arguably more necessary then the other but if you asked me if one was more compliant to the whole “What the POINT is is that they are LIVING SPECIES with FEELINGS and a right to live” argument, I would have to say no.”
Well maybe you’re right because this is more complex than only ONE point. For example the feelings and right to live states only that all species become a right to live and die. Lions eat sheep for example, for a living. And here in PUEBLA, MExico there is the largest chicken farms on the world and I can tell you there isn’t one town here where they don’t sell chicken. But its food and I still hope someday these chickens won’t have to suffer if they are damned to die. But the thing is.. what’s the problem of killing? The way you do it and the reason. Painfull killing for FUR isn’t ok.
“At the end of the day, I feel that people should absolutely have a right to disagree with the hunt, but I feel that the whole event is misrepresented by the media, and the result is a “fanatical” theme that I disagree with. Furthermore media representations illustrate McCartney, and apparently now Pamela Anderson as so-called figure-heads, yet Anderson probably has a fur wardrobe that could rival a zoo… The contradictions are endless, which makes my cynical to the notion that someone can credibly dispute events such as this, while they are consumers of similar ones.”
The media is only one part of all. And if you read my coments you will se I don’t like taking in celebrities or organizations in a simple opinion blog where I am talking from my side of view of things. Anyways I am glad some celebrities do make wind.. if not we wouldn’t be sitting here and talking on this blog
“I do however feel that an apology is owed to you Oli… Although I disagree with many of your points, the personal attacks on you were unneccessary.”
This is a very unexpected statment which I am happy to read. I guess we disagree respectfully and hope someday one of us will convert to the other side:)
Take care…
March 31st, 2006 at 1:38 am
And about the inuit, I must clarify a thing to you. I have nothing against small groups of natives that do this for a living. And as I said in one of my comments, here in Mexico we have many indians that still live by hunting and planting food and even if they are gentle people with respect to nature, their “ignorance” or no knowledge has damaged a lot of forests but I can’t blame them but more the government for not trying to integrate them more, even if it’s just sharing knowledge with them.
Anyways.. I think you understand me.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:43 am
The reason I am defensive about the “racist” accusation is because I put the so-called racist statement in quotations, illustrating HOW I could have sounded similar to you with your inuit statement… That is not even my feeling about the United States, rather a generic argument that many voice against the US for their involvement in other countries… But that is besides the point.
I think the main problem is that anyone can voice opposition to an event such as the seal hunt, yet few if any suggest any viable solutions. This is why I agreed so with the whole armchair protester suggestion. Especially in the case of these celebrities, they are so quick to act bold and proclaim an injustice, yet for the most part they don’t even attempt to suggest a possible solution.
Until we take it that step further, the protests and complaints are useless.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:46 am
I think we both learned how a statement can be misinterpreted… So let’s bury the hatchet on the whole “race” card.
And lets start coming up with solutions to this problem. First and foremost, I feel as if the provincial and perhaps even federal government branches of Canada must play a major role in a financial solution for these “now-jobless” hunters. Whether it is to invest in an infrastructure allowing new occupations for people of the area, or simply via social welfare programs.
March 31st, 2006 at 2:44 am
WOW, I must say this is the best I have read on the whole blog. At least somebody that sees that we should try to find better solutions. Great! Ireally wished I knew more about the reasons governments invest in all this cheap cruelty so I could attack more specific structures that facilitate the lifestyle of people to do things thw wrong way.
And I totally agree with you that the government plays a big role in this, since somehow it’s their responsability to decide in benefit of all of us and not just in benefit of the rich ones. I am pretty sure there are ways to make money with seals without killing them. As I read on one blog, tourism is a very big thing.. here in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico we have Walewatching every year and it’s for a good cause since the money goes to investigation companies that study sea life and environment…
So I hope to hear more such good comments!
March 31st, 2006 at 2:56 am
I am sure something can be thought of, to benefit from the seals without killing them. Or you ignore the seals altogether, and create new industry and opportunities for the communities.
From what I understand, the money they do make (on an individual basis) is not terribly high. Thus if we can implement a plan that can make these former hunters what they would have made hunting (or ideally more) then the issue would seemingly be solved… Or at least much improved.
March 31st, 2006 at 4:06 am
I still wish I knew more about the region and surroundings to maybe at least offer some logical and acceptable solution.
I have heard that universities and other research centres spend money on some interesting point of the world as it could be the cold north. I am not sure what exactly there is to research, but I guess, besides the snow, ice and ocean you have the seals which might have some interesting part to study. I hope this doesn’t sound ridiculous, but creating a small comunity of young researchers that have the possibility to go to Canada and study things with help of the government could build a total new place. Great turistic atractions could be built with ice like those Ice hotels in Finland or other parts of the world… they could have Icebuilding competitions and be atractive to tourists, while the same people living there for a temporal time on research will need food, clothing and places to go, so somehow it would be a comunity who has a lot’s of needs and all these needs can be provided by the unemployed seal hunters.
Well… since I really have no idea of what could and what could not be done I think the first step is thinking of it and coment it to people in high positions.. maybe they can bring the government on a idea how to create more jobs and make canada more interesting, since I am sure there is much more about canada than the seal hunt!
April 1st, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Oli and Iv,
I’ve been reading your debate for some time. Surprise, surprise, in my opinion both of you are wrong about the seal hunt being wrong.
It seems to come down to this, based on what I’ve read. The killing of animals for clothing and human consumption is politically correct if:
- it is done behind closed doors with no cameras around to show the ugliness of the animal’s convulsions and their blood flowing over the floor
- the animals are held in capivity for every hour of their lives
- the meat comes neatly wrapped in a clean grocery store
- the leather is seen in the form of a coat and not as the skin of a dead animal
- the majority in your society partakes in the wearing and consumption of products from the killing of these out-of-sight, out-of-mind animals
- the cuteness of these animals do not reach the level of a seal
- CNN does no cover the killing of these animals.
This is not a debate about seals only as some wish it to be (sorry if I’ve again violated the reason for this blog). This is a debate about consistency in personal and political policies and beliefs. This debate is only self-serving when standards are applied in a very selective way.
I recently saw a study which revealed that the vast majority of those in opposition to the seal hunt are urban dwellers (hopefully I can provide the url if it is available on the web). These are people who live in an energy guzzling concrete world which is totally intolerant of most wildlife. In fact, in these people’s world wildlife is viewed through steel bars or plexiglass at zoos. And we are suppose to listen to the preachings of these people who believe they are at one with nature. Give me a break! Since when was avoiding the direct personal killing of wildlife the standard for being at one with nature? Since when did the killing of wildlife for food and clothing mean not being at one with nature?
I have no problem with the very principled people who truly and totally boycott all animal products, if any of these people really exist. For those who do not, change your lives, do not be selective with your values, boycott all business and regions which violate those values, and preach with true authority. In other words, stop finding scapegoats like my people to make you feel good about yourselves (at our expense). Clean up your own act, your own family, your own community, your own country first. Lead by example. If you don’t, then be prepared to debate the total picture, not just the blood of a cute seal on the white ice.
Those of you against the seal hunt based on selective reasoning, there is a thread which runs through all of your writings and thoughts, it’s called hypocrisy.
I truly wish you all good well and reasoned thoughts!
April 1st, 2006 at 4:31 pm
“boycott all business and regions”
-see? this is what i mean
April 2nd, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Oli and Iv,
I just found this great parody that may serve to make a point about self-righteous celebrities like Paul and Heather and others.
I am not attacking people for slaughtering little calves, eating the meat, or wearing the leather. That would bring me down to the level of most self-proclaimed environmentalists. I understand the environmental balance which this approach acheives. I’m simply bringing out the hypocrisy that most bring to this debate.
You will note that I’ve not stooped so low as to include photos or videos of the animal’s convulsions and its blood flowing on the slaughter house floor that I mentioned earlier.
http://www.nunatsiaq.com/news/nunavut/60317_14.html
April 2nd, 2006 at 7:41 pm
“I am not attacking people for slaughtering little calves, eating the meat, or wearing the leather.”
I guess that makes you a better person?
“That would bring me down to the level of most self-proclaimed environmentalists”
It is up to you what you want to defend or not. And I am not sure if it would bring you “down”. In my eyes you’d go “up”
“I understand the environmental balance which this approach acheives. I’m simply bringing out the hypocrisy that most bring to this debate.”
I understand the Hypocrisy argument, but as I said before many people
have been raised up eating meat as the canadians have been raised up killing seals. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t feel bad by eating the meat of an animal that probably suffered in it’s totallity of its life like many cows treated badly. It is no excuse to state.. “since me and my family have been eating shit for thousands of years, we must go on doing it”. And also… if all people couldn’t protest against something because they indirectly suport it then I guess you have no right to change your desicion on voting a president even if you now think he’s an asshole. The same with the millions of cigarett users, just because they smoke it doesn’t mean they can’t protest against companies, since the objective in this protest is clearly to stop the process and this means people wouldn’t mind to go to the store and not find cigaretts or meat since it helps to lose the adictivness our humanity has become without thinking of any consequenzes.
“You will note that I’ve not stooped so low as to include photos or videos of the animal’s convulsions and its blood flowing on the slaughter house floor that I mentioned earlier.”
I am not sure what you mean by that. In fact I like the picture with the cow and I think if they wanted to ad horrible pictures of cow killing then it would be their decission. For me personally I am no activist and at the moment I couldn’t imagine myself using such horrible pictures nor for the seals or the cows or any living species, but as you may have notices there are people trying to articulate this issue and to do this it seems it’s not necessary to show any kinds of pictures since we all KNOW what it’s about. So do you see any pictures on this blog?
This Issue has too sides coming from the activists. One is the horrible side that should be stoped and for that they show you on pictures horrible things that should be stoped. And on the other side they show you cute little baby animals that shouldn’t suffer but more be cuddled and huged by activist where the objective on this is more to talk about a better world that we can provide for all of us and other species, but at the end it doesn’t matter if it’s Pamela Anderson or Paul or a seal or a chicken, because it’s totally irrelevant to bring them allways into your arguments.
In fact I understand that you animal suffering pro’s don’t like celebrities being against you, but that is your personal taste and has nothing to do with the subject.
No animal lover witll go “hey.. look pamela anderson doesn’t eat meat, so we should all not eat it, because if SHE does it then it must be ok!”
So coming back to the real issue on animal suffering, in this case seals, I can’t even count the times I have repeated myself on this that it’s really just about trying to see how things have been in the past and how they can be improoved. It’s no use to simply ignore that there are solutions, but of course for you animal suffering fans this is no problem that need a solution because you don’t think into the future and rather stay by ancient traditions that have in fact nothing anymore to do with a group of natives killing for food.
This sais I guess if it still isn’t clear than I am sure more of these comments will come in future so to do a bit my homework I will start answereing all your future comments since I am sure to have noticed the regularity that they come up no matter what I posted before.
1. Yes I know Chickens and Cows are being killed to. But for the moment let us concetrate on seals, and maybe later we’ll talk about whatever you want.
2. Yes I know celebrities are everywhere and if they poop everyone judges them and to be honest I don’t care if they are pro or contra if it’s just to make publicity, but otherwise is it possible to be against something being a celebrity without having the world watching and judging you?
3. Yes I also know you say it’s important for economy. I think Canada for example has one of the biggest Oil reserves, hasn’t it? And even if not, I don’t think killing seals for FUR is the best you can do. It’s more a solution that has never been improoved, and I don’t know if people are too lazy or just don’t care enought to look for better way in making money. In fact the hunters don’t do that much money, so it is pretty clear that the ones doing money are very pleased how things are going since I am not sure if they would profit the same if seal hunters had other jobs to do where of course they wouldn’t share their profit with the big seal hunt industry heads. Anyways I guess if economy is reason enough for you to kill for fur then you might also have gone to Irak war if you had no oil.. ??? I’m just saying no matter what you say there is no excuse to do what you are doing as there is none for others killing cows and chickens..
4. Yes I also know there are protesters and moneymakers like PETA that probably do more damage as help. I guess if you have the amount of money peta has you could bring up some intelligent heads to propose some real solutions, but at the same time without seal hunt, the protesters wouldn’t have anything to protest about, right? and that means it’s a money thing.. like most of the problems in this world. So to say it easy… There are celebrities that might protest for other reasons as there are organizations and etc… but does that change the real issue? The issue about “evoluted” human race not caring enough about a living thing with a brain and nerves and able to feel pain? I just get tired of your excuses.
5. Just because you think there are eough reasons to do what you do doesn’t change the fact that you do it. And another thing I have noticed very often in forums. Scientific forums to be exact. There seem to apear very often extremists of religion that start arguing with god. Mostley of the time people respond and argue a small time but when the fundamentalist doesn’t stop saying: Every aspect of the bible is hundred percent exact and has never been prooven wrong, then many just don’t even react anymore to those comments.
What I am trying to say is, that if all people in favor of sealhunting would really believe that it’s ok and they would have NO doubt in it… then why do they keep responding on such “infantile armchair protesters” like we?
Ok, I guess one answere to this could be because they care? But about what? Maybe about their reputation because they live in a country where this has been going on for ever and it has achieved a cultural acceptance? I am pretty sure no seal hunter would try to protest against cow killing if he wasn’t in a religion that makes cows godlike. But what I mean is that everybody has the right to make a change or even try, as for many this issue is more about saving reputation as the USA government would NEVER acept it is doing wrong unless it’s in the past and it is absolutley evident that they did wrong. So as I said, for some it is a reputation issue, for some it is a chance to get more publicity, to some it’s for money, but the more people protest, no matter what I think it will be possitive in one or the other way for the seals since my concern are them at this moment. And yes I know chickens and cows suffer too! And maybe when I have time I’ll do a chicken and cow blog!
But for now I hope no matter what is your reason for complain, that we stop arguing with celebrities, or organizations or pictures, and focus more on the real issue that will allways be “Is seal hunt ok?” If yes, what can be done to spread it in the world so every living species on earth can have seal FUR clothing, and if no what can be done to stop it? It’s that simple. No celebrities, No chickens, No excuses without real arguments.
6. I know it could be another issue to talk about what is evolution and who is behaving more barbaric, the ones who kill seals or the ones who are against it.
Many argue with the fact that there aresome agressive activists and because of that they put all avtivists in one box stating they are worse then the poor sealhunters that do it for money cause they are unable to practice any other work. So if you are defending the seal hunters, DEFEND THEM! You are not doing any good by looking at the wron side of the problem which isn’t the seal hunters.. but more the heads over them who do the real money! How many seal hunters die every year? It’s not the big heads who risk their lives. THE SEAL HUNTERS ARE BEING EXPLIODED and if your argument is to defend them then think about what you are saying because I don’t think it’s in the best interest of them as I also think that if they had a chance to do other work for the same or more money that they would do it! Of course they would!
7. And for those trying to save your reputation, I can only say there is no way to ignore you are doing wrong. Just because it’s a tradition and you love your country doesn’t mean you can do it better. It’s not like you need it, so why defend something just because it’s tradition? And if you are serious about defending it, why don’t you get some real arguments and stop crying about celebrities and video of YOU killing on tv.
The truth is that the truth will allways come out, sooner or later and you can’t hide it with silly arguments, I really hope to hear some better stuff from you guys because I am really really getting tired of repeating myself.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Oli,
I’m glad you’ve made the point that you’ve simply repeated yourself so often. Let me put things another way to you and hopefully you can come up with something new.
As in law, when an issue is being debated as to whether or not it violates acceptable community standards, comparative situations are used to make a judgement. You cannot dismiss someone’s arguments simply because you don’t even agree with the comparative situations being cited. In doing so you are simply trying to impose your own personal standards on all of us. If you judge yourself to be at that level then so be it.
My point is that the activities of the seal hunters have several socially accepted cmparisons. If you disagree with this then I think you are in denial. If you do agree that there are several comparisons to be made in judging the suitability of the seal hunt then stop avoiding that fact and start dealing with it, in your own back garden first.
Stop preaching to a people and society you seem quick to judge but seem to know so little about. Maybe you should follow Oprah’s lead and take on the Texas beef industry, an industry that I support by the way. Or are the limited numbers, lobby, and finances of the eastern Canadian sealers a much easier and safer target for you, hence the seals first approach.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:46 pm
“I’m glad you’ve made the point that you’ve simply repeated yourself so often. Let me put things another way to you and hopefully you can come up with something new.”
So why do you think I repeat myself?
Might it be because you just don’t get hte point? Mybe you just ignore what I write? If you cam up with something new, I wouldn’t have to repeat myself.
“As in law, when an issue is being debated as to whether or not it violates acceptable community standards, comparative situations are used to make a judgement. You cannot dismiss someone’s arguments simply because you don’t even agree with the comparative situations being cited. In doing so you are simply trying to impose your own personal standards on all of us. If you judge yourself to be at that level then so be it.”
What you really are trying to say is that your argument “if everyone does bad, we have the right to do it too” should be accepted by me as an acceptable and valid argument even if it isn’t. It’s not about comparative situations that are being cited because in your comment you say: “You will note that I’ve not stooped so low as to include photos or videos of the animal’s convulsions and its blood flowing on the slaughter house floor that I mentioned earlier.” and for some reason you are trying to distract the fact that you are killing and making animals suffer with another irrelevant topic as that in your arguments pointing to other animal slaughtering you don’t use videos or pictures. So indirectly you are saying if you where against slaughtering cows, which you aren’t, you wouldn’t have that “low niveou” of showing pics or movies. So what are you really talking about? Is it more yourslef that you are trying to defend or better say to save your reputation? Maybe you just want show you are “better”?
“My point is that the activities of the seal hunters have several socially accepted cmparisons. If you disagree with this then I think you are in denial. If you do agree that there are several comparisons to be made in judging the suitability of the seal hunt then stop avoiding that fact and start dealing with it, in your own back garden first.”
Well yes but it is totally irrelevant to say if they are killing cows we will kill seals, even if it’s for FUR. So if you would use more relevant comparisons instead of… ” in some other country they do that…” (distracting).
And in fact I am dealing with everything you throw at me but I am tired of hearing the same irrelevant arguments over and over and I am being fair enough to answere them over and over again since I like to make things clear, even if many ignore my words.
“Stop preaching to a people and society you seem quick to judge but seem to know so little about. Maybe you should follow Oprah’s lead and take on the Texas beef industry, an industry that I support by the way. Or are the limited numbers, lobby, and finances of the eastern
a much easier and safer target for you, hence the seals first approach. ”
The more I know about your society the less I wanna know. In fact there is no much to know about excuses to what you do.. because if there was you wouldn’t be repeating the same lame arguments over and over again. And I don’t look Oprah. Maybe that’s how your government has brainwashed you.. it seems you watch a bit to much tv. Tv is good for informative reasons but even then you have to filter a lot out, but when you mention Oprah, and all these talkshows, then I guess arguing with you will be similar as being in a talkshow and throwing chairs at each other
And no, the Canadian sealers have never been my target, in fact I guess I am doing more for them than you, since it seems you don’t care that every year they have to risk their lives for some pennys to get more money into the pockets of the rich.
So, to judge from your QUICK answere to my comments, I guess I can not expect more from you… maybe you should participate in a talkshow, I guess there you will find more people going mad, because the more I read from you the more I am sure there won’t come any real argument… you just talk and talk and talk about everything else but the seals… so I guess someday you’ll notice this isn’t a Oprah Talkshow
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:53 pm
PD: I wish you a wonderful weekend and hope to see you next week. Because for today I’ve had enough computer…
August 16th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
In the Province of Newfoundland/Labrador the EI program requires that the minimum anual family income must not exceed 20,000 - 30,000 dollars per household. In 2006, the EI program required a person to work 420 hours (not exceeding an anual family income of $30,000). If the total hours is not meet, then the person would be required to work 910 hours in 2007. So, between a small family of 2 people they must work 840 hours but not make more than 30,000 dollars. Yes, most people would say than work full time all year round, but keep in mind that the minimun wage is $6.75 for adults. At minimun wage, the people of this province are living of $1080.00 per month. They still pay just as much money for housing and hydro. They still have the same bills as you and I. So after paying your rent, hydro, cable, telephone bills how much money do you have left over for food when you start with $1080.
Many Newfie/Labradorians rely on seal meat as a main diet to feed their families. Not only do they eat seal to survive but also wild duck, turr, moose and carribou. So when you go to the store and buy your pork, lamb, beef and VEAL (which is in fact BABY cow) take note of how much you spent on these things. Is it that hard to believe that substituting these meats for wild ones is a necessity for some, rather than a barbaric act. Perhaps, you don’t even eat meat. You think the killing of ANY animal is barbaric. You, with your vitamin supplements and your soy milk. Go down to a small town in Labrador. Look for soy milk and green salads. You’ll be more likely to find carrots, cabbage, potatoes and turnip, because those are the only vegetables you will find. They don’t have the luxury of vegetarian friendly groceries. So, personally people I think you should cut these “archaic, barbarians” some slack, they don’t have much but they do a damn good job with what they do have!